Re: Birth date for James Cooley that married Jane White

From: Michael Cooley <michael_at_newsummer.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:33:30 -0700

We seem to have solid and verifiable birth years for those in the
following list that are starred (probably for Jemima, too). Is there
strong documentation for any of the others? Mark's placement (before or
after Jemima) is an open question. Given the following, and if we accept
the birth order, this still puts James c1807-1808. I think the only way it
would change much is if we could show that both Mark and Isaac were born
before Jemima, but that doesn't appear to be the case, judging from the
1790 census.

Ideas?

Jemima Cooley, 1800
Demarquis D Cooley
*Theodosia Cooley, 1803 - cemetery record
Isaac N Cooley
James M Cooley
*Timothy Goode Cooley, 1810 - obit and census records
John H Cooley
Cornelius Cooley
Benjamin R Cooley
*Mathias M Cooley, 1818 - cemetery and census records
William W Cooley

-Michael

> This appears to be a version of the alternate order of birth for James's
> kids. The record here is incomplete and probably comes from an older
> source. For instance, the info for Mathias is both wrong and incomplete.
> The birth order in the "letters" corrects it.
>
> http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/d/e/n/Ronald--M-Denes/GENE16-0002.html
>
> Mark may have well been born before the girls but it doesn't correlate
> with the 1800 census.
>
> Theodosia would have been married 1st to Cunningham rather than second.
> The placement of William appears to be way off base.
>
> If we can accept the birth date of 1810 for Tink and 1818 for Mathias as
> anchors and the birth order from the "letters" then we come up with pretty
> much what I posted earlier for the younger kids. My only question would be
> whether Matthias and William were really born in the same year and were
> twins.
>
> Thoughts? Do we have compelling evidence -not- to accept the birth order
> from the "letters?"
>
> -Michael
>
>> Of course, the -husbands- at that time were the actual heirs, as
>> inferred
>> in the "letters." The females ages may have been inconsequential because
>> of their marriages.
>>
>> The only Hank Jones I've heard of is the great jazz musician (brother of
>> Thad Jones and Elvin Jones)! I assume that Hank Z Jones is a noted
>> genealogist.
>>
>> -Michael
>>
>>> females were of age at 18 and males at 21 doing this time period, I
>>> believe.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.
>>>  
>>> Just came home from hearing Hank Z Jones speak at our gen. meeting.  He
>>> is
>>> always a very intertaining speaker.  Since he lives here in San Diego
>>> county we have him about every year or so.
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 9/27/11, Michael Cooley <michael_at_newsummer.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Michael Cooley <michael_at_newsummer.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Birth date for James Cooley that married Jane White
>>> To: "John Cooley Mailing List" <undisclosed.recipients_at_johncooley.net>
>>> Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 10:31 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> You're right, Sandy. They are listed as married and not listed among
>>> the
>>> minors:
>>>
>>> "Thomas White and his wife Jemima White said Jemima is the daughter and
>>> heir of said deceased, William Cunningham and his wife Docia which said
>>> Docia is the daughter and Heir of said Deceased and the following sons
>>> and
>>> heirs all minors..."
>>>
>>> I had always assumed that they were older but, of course, that they
>>> were
>>> married does not mean they were not minors. Excellent point. I have no
>>> dates for them. Finding them on census records would, of course, be
>>> key.
>>>
>>> -Michael
>>>
>>>> But you are leaving out the daughters in the list for possible birth
>>>> dates.  I have to get ready for a genealogical meeting, so can't look
>>>> up
>>>> what I believe the dates to be.  Will get back to you all later.
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 9/26/11, Amy Martin <amycmartin_at_cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Amy Martin <amycmartin_at_cox.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: Birth date for James Cooley that married Jane White
>>>> To: "John Cooley Mailing List" <undisclosed.recipients_at_johncooley.net>
>>>> Date: Monday, September 26, 2011, 8:37 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm a little late to the party, but is the Isaac Cooley (brother of =
>>>> Tink) the same Isaac that married Frances Alley?
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 26, 2011, at 11:16 PM, Michael Cooley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure where the date of 1808 originated, but it make sense if
>>>>> =
>>>> we
>>>>> accept the order of children listed in James's letters of =
>>>> administration:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Demarquis D Cooley (1802-1826) m Rebecca
>>>>> Isaac N Cooley (1805-c1838)
>>>>> James M Cooley (1808-)
>>>>> Timothy Goode "Tink" Cooley (1810-1893)
>>>>> John H Cooley (1812-1846)
>>>>> Cornelius Cooley (1814-1843 MO)
>>>>> Benjamin R Cooley (1816-1880+ MO)
>>>>> Mathias M Cooley (1818-1870)
>>>>> William W Cooley (1818- MO)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I know that the year of Matthias's birth is pretty solid due to
>>>>> census
>>>>> records and his tombstone. I think Ben's also is consistent with =
>>>> census
>>>>> records. How about Tink's? I understand that's solid too. If the
>>>>> birth
>>>>> =
>>>> order
>>>>> is correct and James was born between Isaac and Tink, then 1808ish =
>>>> works.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In respect to Joseph's children, his daughter, Elizabeth Cooley
>>>>> White,
>>>>> =
>>>> said
>>>>> this: "In my eleventh year, death visited our family and claimed my =
>>>> mother
>>>>> for its victim, leaving six children. I being the third child..."
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I have...
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Elizabeth Cooley (c1790-c1881) m William White
>>>>> Mary Cooley (1791-) m Jesse Mitchell
>>>>> John Cooley (1793-1844) m Elizabeth White
>>>>> James Cooley (1796-c1829) m Jane White?
>>>>> Hannah Cooley (1798-) m William Wilson
>>>>> Tempy Cooley (1800-)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> .... but that doesn't make her the third child!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I'd have to review census records to see how consistently Elizabeth's
>>>>> =
>>>> age is
>>>>> given, but the 1790 census for Joseph gives him one son, presumably =
>>>> born
>>>>> 1790 or earler. (As far as I can tell, there is no census record for
>>>>> =
>>>> Joseph
>>>>> in 1800. Too bad. That would help!)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Unfortunately, there are too many FGSes without sources listed. Jim =
>>>> Terry's
>>>>> FGS, which I first saw in the 1990s, says this for James, as son of =
>>>> Joseph:
>>>>> "1796 - Goose Creek, Green, Kentucky, USA" I asked him about it and
>>>>> he
>>>>> =
>>>> said
>>>>> it came from the IGI.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> So, is it reasonable to accept the order of births from James's =
>>>> records? If
>>>>> so, are there some good anchors in the form of reliable birth years =
>>>> from
>>>>> which to build out the other dates? I'd bet that most of the dates =
>>>> we're
>>>>> looking at were approximations based on the much of the same material
>>>>> =
>>>> we're
>>>>> looking at.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In his 1930s letter to Tallant, Kiergan said he -thought- James was =
>>>> his
>>>>> grandfather's brother but, as Sandy pointed out, there are decided =
>>>> errors in
>>>>> those letters. Do we have other clues as to the identity of Joseph's
>>>>> =
>>>> first
>>>>> six children.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> It would be odd that Joseph didn't name one of is children but, as =
>>>> pointed
>>>>> out, that's not necessarily unusual. My Edward Cooley didn't name his
>>>>> =
>>>> son
>>>>> Reuben.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> James as a son of Joseph may be difficult to show with primary
>>>>> records
>>>>> =
>>>> but I
>>>>> suspect we can get a reasonable fix on the birth year for James's =
>>>> James.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -Michael
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> ------=3D_NextPart_000_0006_01CC7C7C.B4016140
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>>>>>>     charset=3D"Windows-1252"
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The birth date for James Cooley in the Cooley-White family histories
>>>>>> =
>>>> I =3D
>>>>>> have seen gives 1802 as his date of birth not 1808.  One history =
>>>> lists =3D
>>>>>> him as James Cooley, Jr. but did not see anything to confirm that
>>>>>> =3D
>>>>>> either.  This history gives both 1802 for birth in Goose Creek,  =
>>>> Green =3D
>>>>>> County,  Ky but also lists the possibility of his birth at 1808 in =
>>>> Casey =3D
>>>>>> County, Ky.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The birth date given for Jane White is June 25, 1802 in Mercer Co.,
>>>>>> =
>>>> Ky.  =3D
>>>>>> Would Jane have married someone six years younger than she, perhaps
>>>>>> =
>>>> when =3D
>>>>>> she was 18 or 19?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Another source to look at is Jan Martinet's Cooley history.  On page
>>>>>> =
>>>> 2 =3D
>>>>>> she gives details of Joseph T. Cooley's estate probated in Clay =
>>>> County, =3D
>>>>>> Missouri dated Sept. 12, 1826.  It shows the following heirs to =
>>>> Joseph =3D
>>>>>> T. Cooley and I am quoting:
>>>>>> Keziah Cooley, his widow and their children: Polly Mitchell, John,
>>>>>> =3D
>>>>>> Elizabeth Cooley, Hannah Wilson, Evaline, Christopher C. Cassander,
>>>>>> =3D=
>>>>
>>>>>> Harrison, Jackson, Franklin and Eli.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>  She does not list a James Cooley at all and he would still have
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> =
>>>> =3D
>>>>>> alive in 1826.  I suppose it is possible if there was a James he =
>>>> could =3D
>>>>>> have received no inheritance.  Can't rule that out.
>>>>>> This does not state if there was a will, just that it was probated
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> =
>>>> =3D
>>>>>> this date.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I would suspect this is why historians have concluded that James =
>>>> Cooley =3D
>>>>>> that married Jane White is James Cooley's son.  There should be no =
>>>> doubt =3D
>>>>>> from this that John Cooley that married Elizabeth White was Joseph's
>>>>>> =
>>>> =3D
>>>>>> son.
>>>>>> Jane Wisdom
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> ------=3D_NextPart_000_0006_01CC7C7C.B4016140
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/html;
>>>>>>     charset=3D"Windows-1252"
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>>>> <HTML><HEAD>
>>>>>> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
>>>>>> charset=3D3Dwindows-1252">
>>>>>> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.17102" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
>>>>>> <STYLE></STYLE>
>>>>>> </HEAD>
>>>>>> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The birth date for
>>>>>> James
>>>>>> =
>>>> Cooley =3D
>>>>>> in the=3D20
>>>>>> Cooley-White family histories I have seen gives 1802 as his date of
>>>>>> =3D=
>>>>
>>>>>> birth not=3D20
>>>>>> 1808.&nbsp; One history lists him as James Cooley, Jr. but did not =
>>>> see =3D
>>>>>> anything=3D20
>>>>>> to confirm that either.&nbsp; This history gives both 1802 for birth
>>>>>> =
>>>> in =3D
>>>>>> Goose=3D20
>>>>>> Creek,&nbsp; Green County, &nbsp;Ky but also lists the possibility
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> =
>>>> =3D
>>>>>> his birth=3D20
>>>>>> at 1808 in Casey County, Ky.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial =
>>>> size=3D3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The birth date given
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> =
>>>> Jane =3D
>>>>>> White is June=3D20
>>>>>> 25, 1802 in Mercer Co., Ky.&nbsp; Would Jane have married someone
>>>>>> six
>>>>>> =
>>>> =3D
>>>>>> years=3D20
>>>>>> younger than she, perhaps when she was 18 or =
>>>> 19?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial =
>>>> size=3D3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Another source to look
>>>>>> =
>>>> at is =3D
>>>>>> Jan Martinet's=3D20
>>>>>> Cooley history.&nbsp; On page 2 she gives details of Joseph T.=3D20
>>>>>> Cooley's&nbsp;estate probated&nbsp;in Clay County, Missouri dated =
>>>> Sept. =3D
>>>>>> 12,=3D20
>>>>>> 1826.&nbsp; It shows the following heirs to Joseph T. Cooley and I =
>>>> am=3D20
>>>>>> quoting:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Keziah Cooley, his
>>>>>> widow
>>>>>> =
>>>> and =3D
>>>>>> their=3D20
>>>>>> children: Polly Mitchell, John, Elizabeth Cooley, Hannah Wilson, =3D
>>>>>> Evaline,=3D20
>>>>>> Christopher C. Cassander, Harrison, Jackson, Franklin and=3D20
>>>>>> Eli.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial =
>>>> size=3D3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>&nbsp; She does not
>>>>>> list
>>>>>> =
>>>> a =3D
>>>>>> James=3D20
>>>>>> Cooley&nbsp;at all and he would still have been alive in 1826.&nbsp;
>>>>>> =
>>>> I =3D
>>>>>> suppose=3D20
>>>>>> it is possible if there was a James he could have
>>>>>> received&nbsp;no=3D20=
>>>>
>>>>>> inheritance.&nbsp; Can't rule that out.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>This does not state if
>>>>>> =
>>>> there =3D
>>>>>> was a will,=3D20
>>>>>> just that it was probated on this date.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial =
>>>> size=3D3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I would suspect this is
>>>>>> =
>>>> why =3D
>>>>>> historians have=3D20
>>>>>> concluded that James Cooley that married Jane White&nbsp;is James
>>>>>> =3D
>>>>>> Cooley's=3D20
>>>>>> son.&nbsp; There should be no doubt from this that John Cooley that
>>>>>> =3D=
>>>>
>>>>>> married=3D20
>>>>>> Elizabeth White was Joseph's son.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Jane =3D
>>>>>> Wisdom</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D3DArial =3D
>>>>>> size=3D3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> ------=3D_NextPart_000_0006_01CC7C7C.B4016140--
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> --
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>>>> information.
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>>> information.
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>>
>>
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Received on Wed Sep 28 2011 - 20:33:30 MDT

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